Comments - Greatest Jazz Albums.
January 11, 2005 thru April 2, 2005. |
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I was gonna post but Lew had the forums shut down...
No, I have not read that one yurgis. My AP English and History classes
are consuming all of my reading time, and I've no time to do ANY free
reading. Fear not, though, my Jazz crony, for I intend on reading up on
Mingus, Miles, and possibly Coltrane (I fear a novel cannot capture his
essence).
Peter the great
- Saturday, April 02, 2005 at 23:28:57 (EST)
Peter TG, you might be very right here…
Mingus heavy-weight boxer’s hit to Jimmy Knepper’s chin (all teeth out,
of course) is one story many are ready to buy, “The Black Saint” is
another one – very hard to digest… “Beneath the Underdog” – have you
read it? My full translation of this book into Russian is still waiting
for a publisher... over there…
Yurgis
- Thursday, March 31, 2005 at 19:04:36 (EST)
Tis Yurgis, and Ah Um is still at 4 there! I was thinking the other day
how in hell such an amazing piece of art can be so neglected, even by a
Jazz community as such, and I've determined that it is the emotion.
Mingus is known for his insane behavior, crazy titles, and earlier bop
compositions. It seems that when his music deepens in complexity and
emotion, fans don't follow as much as they should. For it is INCREDIBLE.
Peter the great
- Thursday, March 31, 2005 at 10:52:39 (EST)
I find it odd that Medeski,Martin &Wood; are represented on this list
with "Combustication". While it is a great album, it us not nearly
their best effort. "Shack-man" and "Friday Afternoon In The
Universe", even their new album, "End Of The World Party(Just In
Case)" is amazing. I think these others should be considered for this
list. The only reason I can think that "Combustication" was listed is
because of its groundbreaking Fusion with a DJ spinning and looping
on it.
Red
- Wednesday, March 30, 2005 at 20:35:17 (EST)
Peter, remember that it was due to our MUTUAL effort to put "The Black
Saint & The Sinner Lady" from 100+ to the top 100? Congratulations, my
friend, we have moved it up (pushing hard and sweating) - even to #48
here!
In the jazz.fm list it is without any extra effort @ #26 - which is
much closer to reality, IMHO, yet still way too low!
Yurgis
- Wednesday, March 30, 2005 at 00:20:23 (EST)
That is a very interesting list Yurgis. Miles and Trane definitely get
their props there, so being the freak I am with both of them I enjoy
the list from that perspective. Very interesting to see how it developed.
Peter the great
- Tuesday, March 29, 2005 at 01:49:37 (EST)
PLZ, don't miss this very nice reference:
All Time Top 100 Jazz Albums-- As Chosen By You,
this list was in the making for half a year and is a result of hundreds
of thousands of contributors:
http://www.jazz.fm/temporary_files/top100.htm
So much closer to jazz reality!!!
Yurgis
- Monday, March 28, 2005 at 01:21:28 (EST)
Todd, Maiden Voyage is at 26. Sunday is on the 'live' album page.
Alvin
- Saturday, March 26, 2005 at 22:55:42 (EST)
Nice list. I have 27 of your top 100 in my collection and 5 from 101-
200. I think your list should include Thelonius Monk With John
Coltrane and Maiden Voyage by Herbie Hancock. I know your list does
not include live albums so I was disappointed that Bill Evans Sunday
at the Village Vanguard did not appear
Todd
Buffalo, New York United States - Saturday, March 26, 2005 at 21:13:59 (EST)
Well, I was hinting at exactly what you just said, I guess you just
said it a lot better.
Peter the great
- Thursday, March 24, 2005 at 22:51:07 (EST)
I dunno Pete,
While Monks chord structures were/are probably the most complex in all
of jazz, I would hesitate to place his predominant influence to what
came later over the modal scales of Evans, let alone the bass passages
of Mingus. IMHO.
But for sheer genius Geeah! No pianist has yet to figure them all
out. The closest maybe were Art Tatum, Bud Powell and Ahamad Jamal,
who spent their remaining years trying with a good deal of success.
Eh?
John
- Thursday, March 24, 2005 at 11:31:50 (EST)
Damn good Monk indeed! I was looking over vol. 1 (i'm obsessed with it
now as you can tell), and I was just shocked at all the tunes that are
on it! Read this: 'round about midnight, off minor, ruby-my dear,
epistrophy, well-you needn't, and the list goes on and on! One album
that contains at least 3 of the most well known Jazz songs of all time!
Just listening to the sound of the sessions is even more amazing. You
can hear the sound of Jazz of the future just before your ears. Of
course there's the bop and hard bop influence. But there's also a
WEALTH of other genres that definitely stemmed from Monk's work. Maybe
it is just me, but I can hear not only modal sounds, but avant-garde
and cool as well! This album must replace Brilliant Corners! it is just
too good not to! And though it may sound extreme, if we are to add this
album, I wouldn't hesitate putting it at 3 ahead of Mingus ah Um. It
sounds extreme, I know, but when you compare the two albums, GiMM has
such an over-whelming advantage in the influence department. Thoughts?
agrees? disagrees?
Peter the great
- Wednesday, March 23, 2005 at 00:27:58 (EST)
Peter,
I didnt have the album nearby and was gonig on memory. But youre right
about the sessionography.
Damn good Monk in any case,
John
- Tuesday, March 22, 2005 at 11:14:21 (EST)
I don't believe so John. I'm looking at the Rudy Van Gelder reissue,
and it reads that the three sessions that produce GiMM vol. 1 were
recorded in October and November of 1957. I myself wouldn't call it a
compilation, not only on the fact of the recording dates but also that
it is considered an album.
Peter the great
- Monday, March 21, 2005 at 19:48:28 (EST)
Peter,
GMM is certainly great and one of my favorites but isn't it a
compilation?
John
- Monday, March 21, 2005 at 11:06:14 (EST)
I've been listening to a lot of Monk lately, and I really think
Brilliant Corners should be replaced by Genius in Modern Music. BC is
awesome. It ranks as one of my favorite recordings. However, if you're
gonna factor in importance, impact, and influence, GiMM is your easy
pick for the top Monk recording. Plus, it has all his classic
standards. What more could you ask for?
Peter the great
- Saturday, March 19, 2005 at 17:11:16 (EST)
Thank you John and Alvin. John, I'll check out those websites, and
Alvin, I'll try out your suggestions.
David
- Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 20:13:12 (EST)
three questions only.
1.why so few,if any,words about johny hodges?
2.why are johny hodges' cd's so scarce?e.g the b.rabbit/duke in bed etc
3.can you identify one person who can be mistaken for hodges.
bye. vincent(south africa)
vincent thaki nkhatho
johannesburg, gauteng south africa - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 07:35:59 (EST)
Thanks a lot !!!!
cedric
- Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 03:07:48 (EST)
Rick, it's coo
Alvin
- Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 00:01:27 (EST)
(Note - I'm putting this on all of the jazz pages [even though it
ain't that big of a deal])
I've been doing a lot of the 'favorites of ddd' lists. So far I have
done
Miles Davis (Added to the site)
Charles Mingus (Added to the site)
Louis Armstrong
Milt Jackson
Duke Ellington
That's 5. We're aloud to do 6. I can't decide between these 2. Lee
Morgan and Clifford Brown. I was gonna ask you guys which one I
should do. What do you think?
Alvin
- Tuesday, March 15, 2005 at 23:57:29 (EST)
Editor's note: regarding the latest outburst of 'Yurgis'......
To all,
Apologies to all my regulars for the on-going rants & raving of this
obviously emotionally imbalanced individual who has never been able
to accept the clearly stated purpose & criteria of each of these
lists as the rest of you have..............
For a reply to this current and blatantly personal attack, you may
find my response on the jazz guitar page if you have the notion.
P.S. Thanks Alvin.
RICK
- Tuesday, March 15, 2005 at 20:53:30 (EST)
Cedric, if you like fusion you should get "In a Silent Way" (number 13). Yes, it's
Miles again, but Miles is like the best jazz starter ever. Check out "Live at
Filmore - It's About that Time" too (another Miles, but back to what I said, he
starts almost everyone off). Hope you like it.
Yurgis, don't go crazy. Rick hasn't done anything. It's happend to me too, and
not only on this site. Chill man, keep cool.
Alvin
- Tuesday, March 15, 2005 at 16:50:02 (EST)
Cedric, you might also try something by John McLaughlin with the
Mahavishnu Orchestra (he played guitar on Bitches Brew) or Return to
Forever, led by Chick Corea, who played electric piano on Bitches
Brew.
CG
- Tuesday, March 15, 2005 at 15:21:10 (EST)
If Wes is "Smoking at the Half Note" he is positively "on fire" on
the Live in Paris 1965. I believe this has just been reissused with
improved sound.
Cedric, check out Ronald Shannon Jackson's Decoding Society (with
Vernon Reid), James Blood Ulmer and Sonny Sharrock, given your
rock/heavy metal background.
Lastly, gentlemen, I wander across this page on occasion to peruse
other jazz listeners views and opinions on a variety of subjects, and
maybe gain some insight into areas of jazz and/or artists that are
foreign to me. In short, this site is an educational/informational
tool. Ad hominem attacks on other people's viewpoints and or
disparaging remarks on their musical tastes serve no purpose what-so-
ever. Let's elevate the quality of the discourse and focus on what
is important-THE MUSIC.
Marco
Tewksbury, MA USA - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 at 13:19:52 (EST)
Hi all
I'm a newbie in Jazz...I listened my 2 first cds a week ago.
I'll explain :) I'm more a rock/Metal fan, I use to listen a lot of a
guitarist called Buckethead and he did a acoustic cover of "sketche of
spain" from Miles Davis. I also listen a lot "Vernon Reid" who has
Jazz influences. So I listenend "bitches Brew" and "kind of blue" by
Miles Davis. Ok remember..i'm a Jazz newbie/clueless. I like Kind of
blue but I ADORE the second cd of "Bitche brew". I read it's more
fusion or something ? What else do you suggest me to listen ?
Thanks !
Cedric
Belgium - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 at 07:41:05 (EST)
CG, I heard a preview to Smokin, it's really good (and I put it at
number 3 on the live jazz albums list. I don't own it yet, but I
probably will soon (next "pay day").
David, it's hard to reccomend something to you because all those guys
are so different. I think two guys you should like though are Joe
Henderson and Kenny Dorham. Joe is a tenor sax player, and Kenny is
an outstanding trumpet player. They have an album together,
called "Page One" (number 194 on this page). I heard a preview of it
on iTunes. It's really good (and we played the first song a long time
ago in the jazz band). Here's the program.
1. Blue Bossa
2. La Mesha
3. Homestretch
4. Recorda Me
5. Jinrikisha
6. Out of the Night
In my opinion, number 1 is the best. Tell me what you think about it.
Alvin
- Monday, March 14, 2005 at 20:45:08 (EST)
David,
Jazz spans almost 100 years of evolving styles, artists and
instrumentational focus. If you would like suggestions beyond what
this list provides, it would help to know what kind of music you
listened to before discovering Jazz and how you came to discover
Jazz. Not that it is crutial, but recommendations would be difficult
since Wes M. and John C. are so very different. Also what lead
instruments do prefer. Finally and probably more importantly how
much money are you willing to spend to build your Jazz collection. If
you can afford to buy 100 CDs, buy everything on this list starting at
the top, you wont be disappointed.
Here are a couple of links you may enjoy. Both have extensive
information packed in a small bundle.
http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/ms-primer-2.html
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/timeline.htm
Good Luck,
John
- Monday, March 14, 2005 at 11:30:46 (EST)
Hello. I'm a newcomer to the world of jazz. I've just recently gotten
into the style. I really enjoy John Coltrane, Wes Montgomery, and
Jaco Pastorious though. Could anyone recomend some good music based
on my previous knowlege? Thanks.
David
- Monday, March 14, 2005 at 10:41:32 (EST)
Alvin, that's definitely a great album, Incredible Jazz Guitar. If
you haven't heard Smokin' at the Half Note, a live album with Wes with
the Wynton Kelly Trio, you should get that too. Rick, you deserve a
lot of the credit for the way you manage your pages.
CG
- Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 23:45:15 (EST)
CG,
Thanks.................I agree.
RICK
- Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 22:57:37 (EST)
I finally picked up a Wes album today. "Incredible Jazz Guitar" has 8
songs, and 3 of them are on the instrumental list. It's really cool,
anybody who hasn't heard it should get it asap. Best guitar album
ever (in jazz, I don't listen to rock so maybe I'm wrong).
Alvin
- Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 20:57:41 (EST)
Well the blues and jazz pages are great because people are sharing
their love of music, and the arguments are just because they care
about it. The rock pages are filled with a--holes who won't listen,
don't know how to make a reasoned argument, and are mostly there to
put other people down nastily. You can still get a lot of good info
out of even those pages, if you just pay attention to the
knowledgeable people.
CG
- Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 20:32:25 (EST)
Isn't it CG? This site can be the best on the web. However, like shown
in Lew's latest post found in the updates section, there are those out
there that make this the worst site on the web as well.
Peter the great
- Saturday, March 12, 2005 at 22:44:14 (EST)
PTG, I know Miles didn't force anyone into a mold, if anything he
probably gave his sidemen more latitude than a lot of other
bandleaders. I'm just saying that's a feeling I have when I listen to
it. I like Brilliant Corners -- I prefer Monk's music to Miles' in
general, although I like a lot of Miles' music. I understand the
distinction this site makes between "great" (which includes a strong
element of influence and historical status) vs. best. I enjoy these
discussions. I've learned a lot from you and other posters and it's
really reinvigorated my interest in jazz.
CG
- Saturday, March 12, 2005 at 21:09:00 (EST)
You guys want somethin cool? Check out "Belly Roll" by Count Basie and
Quincy Jones. The California All-State High School Jazz Band played it, with
the most amazing (and exciting) bari solo I've heard in my entire life (and yes
he is a high schooler). He flutter tounged, made some wierd clicking/popping
sound, played the notes in a perfect order, it was amazing. A great trumpet and
tenor solo too. If I knew how to put tapes online I'd show you guys, but it still
seems a little wierd to me. I just wish you guys could've heard how the band
played. They didn't sound like high schoolers. Well anyway, check it out (the
song).
Alvin
- Saturday, March 12, 2005 at 12:06:43 (EST)
CG, that's exactly what makes albums like Kind of Blue, Blue Train, and
Brilliant Corners so amazing. They were a collection of the top artist
of the day for a few sessions that produced amazing music.
Believe it or not, 'best' and 'greatest' are two different words in the
english language. I know it's EXTREMELY difficult to comprehend, but I
assure you that it is true. Just kidding, but this site never really
made such a difference, it's always existed.
Here's a good example. Let's look at Beatles albums. Abbey Road is
probably the Beatles best album. It features all members at their peak
musically, both instrumentally and writing wise. It covers a wide
variety of styles and of course has the legendary medley on side 2.
However, Abbey Road is in no way a greater album than Revolver. While
great in it's own right, it's Revolver that set the standard for rock,
pushing the envelope in both musical direction and ambition that still
sounds stunning today. It's aspects like this that give an album
greatness, and Kind of Blue is by no means an exception.
Also, to say that Miles 'forced' his players into a mold is ridiculous,
especially if you have an ounce of background knowledge on the
musicians and the session. All the solos you hear on Kind of Blue are
improvised. I'm sure you know this. All that was planned before hand
were the soloing orders and melodies by Miles and Bill Evans. Since
when is asking players to show up and improvise in a certain amount of
time to a certain key forcing them into a mold? Doesn't make much sense
to me.
Also, considering that both Bill Evans and John Coltrane (whose solo
work you compliment yourself) went on to base their future solo music
on the modal approach Davis used on Kind of Blue, I find it even more
hard to believe that they would be unhappy to play music in that vein.
Unless of course Miles was forcing them into a mold during their solo
careers as well!
Peter the great
- Saturday, March 12, 2005 at 01:05:17 (EST)
mark johnson,
The creator has a master plan, Karma aint in it.
John
- Friday, March 11, 2005 at 18:41:22 (EST)
Peter the Great, all-star events aren't always the best things to
watch or listen to. I like Trane and Cannonball better with their own
outfits, for the most part. I really enjoy this website but I think
it's created a new semantic difference between "greatest" and "best"
that doesn't generally exist in English. I realize you have to have
some kind of objective standards or it just becomes a popularity
contest, which is what a lot of the rock lists are with their
ridiculous influx of prog rock fans. I could listen to Kind of Blue
every day this year and I think I'd only get more tired of it -- for
me, I listen to it and think, Miles, you took a bunch of great players
and forced them into a mold. I'm just as happy listening to So What
as part of a compilation disc I picked up for $5.99 or so a few years
ago.
CG
- Friday, March 11, 2005 at 10:00:33 (EST)
Wow. I havn't been here for a while, and it seems that almost a good
thing for both my eyes and respect for fellow fans of Jazz. Kind of
Blue is the undisputable no. 1. I'm not even being biased about it
either. Taking it from number one would be like taking Revolver out of
it's respected spot. Both are monster albums of the genre that they
represent and are the definitive no. 1 choice. And, even if other
albums may be "better," the list does read '100 GREATEST albums,' not
100 BEST albums' (there is a significant difference). And to add, Kind
of Blue is still a remarkable album. The brilliance in both the
improvisation and harmonics was equaled by few, but for me, it's the
diversity. You've got Miles playing slow, Coltrane playing fast, and
Cannonball playing in-between, with none other than the great Bill
Evans playing chords behind them. This album features the heavy hitters
people.
Peter the great
- Thursday, March 10, 2005 at 21:41:29 (EST)
how on earth is pharoah sanders - karma not on here?
mark johnson
- Thursday, March 10, 2005 at 16:34:59 (EST)
Exactly. By these objective criteria, Kind of Blue has to be up
there. That doesn't even mean it's his best album, because the music
could be better on another album that he did. Say he'd done 20 more
albums with the same musicians in the same style == anyone of the 20
might be a better performed album. Like Abbey Road might be the best-
performed Beatles' album but it didn't break new ground the way many
people would argue Please Please Me or Revolver did, for example.
CG
- Wednesday, March 09, 2005 at 22:03:25 (EST)
Objectively, I hope we can all agree, that Miles Davis' Kind of Blue,
based on the criteria outlined for this list, is a greater album than
anything Lee Ritenour has ever produced. If we disagree on that
point, then we probably don't have enough common ground to discuss it
any further. Other than for me to point out how wrong you are.
Michael Kerr
- Wednesday, March 09, 2005 at 15:02:07 (EST)
As for you judging someone else's taste, you can do whatever you want
but your judgment or taste is no more valid than anyone else's. Your
last post seems to be the second time you feel the need to tell me
this list is based on objective standards. I never said it wasn't,
did I? Maybe if you're going to respond to other people's posts or
criticize them, first you should focus on what they're saying.
CG
- Tuesday, March 08, 2005 at 19:07:27 (EST)
This list is not about taste. If it was, Kenny G, John Tesh and Yanni
would probably be in the Top 10. This list is about jazz albums that
meet the criteria of originality, influence, instrumental quality and
creative inspiration. Its not my list, but I can't argue too much
about the Top 10 in that regard. I agree that anything below that is
more likely to stimulate debate, and certainly these choices are
going to reflect one's tastes. As for judging someone's taste? Of
course I can. I do it all the time. Can 100,000,000 Elvis fans be
wrong? You betcha.
Michael Kerr
- Monday, March 07, 2005 at 10:47:35 (EST)
Michael, Gustavo can speak for himself (in 2 languages) but he didn't
say Miles Davis doesn't belong on the list, he criticized the choice
of Kind of Blue. I think a lot of people would listen to Kind of Blue
and say "and then?" For myself, I wasn't arguing that those two albums
are the "greatest" by these criteria (although I would imagine they're
just as "great" as many of the albums in the second 100), I was making
the point that you can't judge someone's taste. If you just don't
like jazz and you pan Miles Davis, then you just don't like jazz, but
you could love jazz and not particularly care for Miles no matter that
he's great. I agree that Charlie Parker is one of the Mount Rushmore
of jazz but I don't own any albums by him and I don't have an urge to
listen to him.
CG
- Monday, March 07, 2005 at 10:15:26 (EST)
If the list was entitled Your Favorite Jazz Albums then CJ you might
have a point. Or if it was entitled All The Records In My Jazz
Collection then even Gustavo would be on track. But to post here that
Miles Davis would not appear on the list even if it had 300000
entries, then to dismiss every other entry in the Top 10 other than
Mingus, well...come on...yes,taste is personal, but there can be a
certain objectivity in determining which jazz albums are great, try
using musical, historical and cultural significance as your criteria,
or see the list's criteria above, and I doubt that Lee Ritenour
finishes very high up on anyone's list.
I have some Lee Ritenour albums, and enjoy them when I listen to
them, but are they original or influential? That's more than a
stretch.
Michael Kerr
- Monday, March 07, 2005 at 09:18:33 (EST)
Gustavo, usted habla el ingles mas bueno que yo hablo el espanol.
Tambien pienso que Kind of Blue es aburrido, pero entiendo como el
gente piensa que es "importante." Tambien me gusta mucho Mingus Ah Um
y me gusta cualquier musica por Jimmy Smith o Wes Montgomery. Michael
Kerr, isn't taste really personal? Possibly my favorite albums that
are considered "jazz" are Weather Report's Mysterious Traveller and
MJQ's Blues on Bach, yet I never see them listed by any jazz fan as
great albums. As Miles so eloquently put it, "So What?"
CG
- Sunday, March 06, 2005 at 11:27:43 (EST)
i really miss joe zawinuls latest record 'faces and places'.
harald
vienna, austria vienna - Friday, March 04, 2005 at 09:47:48 (EST)
Probing my bad taste:
The best album for The Kinks is...Phobia!!!!! Yes,mister,yes. E-vo-lu-
tion.
The best album for Peter Hammill is...The Noise!!!!
Excellents groups(no jazz):Brand X, Fishbone...
gustavo wrote:
- Friday, March 04, 2005 at 00:33:05 (EST)
continue:
3_Ron Jarzonbeck or Spastic Inc every disc
One doctor here!!!!!!!
jazz:
Kaila flexer
peter Brotzmann"medicine"
william parker whith hamid drake "every"
I loved every class of music, i'm not a purist, and whostay in the
past, stay in the past!!
gustavo azor
- Thursday, March 03, 2005 at 23:38:41 (EST)
1_AC DC"Back in Black"
2_Judas Priest"Sin After Sin"
perdon me voy un rato
otra vez yo
..., ... - Thursday, March 03, 2005 at 23:15:21 (EST)
I have time to spend and monopolize the topic:
1_John Patitucci"Heart of The Bass"
2_Charles Lloyd"Fish Out of Water"
3_Dave Weckl"Hard Wired"
4_Billy Childs"The Child Within"
5_Don Cherry&Ed; Blackwell"El Corazon"
6_Stanley Clarke"School Days" Off Course!!!
7_John Abercrombie"Timeless" Obviusly!!!
8_Didier Lockwood"Storyboard"
9_Chano Dominguez"Hecho a mano"
10_Touch"La Lluvia es Sagrada" Beautiful disc from argentina.
gustavo azor
- Thursday, March 03, 2005 at 23:11:50 (EST)
I like sugest other albums,in the probability what my taste improves.
I look for the aprobation of every people in the world!!
1_Stan Getz&Kenny; Barron"People Time"
2_Pat Metheny"The Way Up"
3_Ralph Towner&Gary; Burton"Matchbook"
4_Stanley Jordan"Magic Touch"
5_Mulgrew Miller"Wingspan"
6_Ellery Eskelin"Arcanum Moderne"
7_Branford Marsalis"Eternal"
8_Roberto Petinato&now;"Musica Anticomercial"
9_Hank Roberts"Little Motor People" I know I go so far...
10_Henry Threadgill"Too Much Sugar for A Dime"
I hope Will go soon to the hospital psichiatry.
gustavo azor
bersheva, israel - Thursday, March 03, 2005 at 21:56:24 (EST)
Michael, thank you for yours coments,I still think what "Captain
Fingers"is a great work better what many discs of miles there aren't
more excellents discs of Lee,may be Stolen Moments.In the other side
I'm sure what kind of Blue is a simple disc and the music here not
sufficient how example of superjazz(place n 1),or jazz.
gustavo azor
bersheva , israel - Thursday, March 03, 2005 at 18:25:50 (EST)
We can excuse your poor english, but your poor taste is another
matter. I take it you believe Lee Ritenour's incredible work should
rank ahead of Miles Davis? Say no more. You've said enough. I expect
even Lee Ritenour would suggest you need some serious help. This is
too easy. Fish in a barrel.
Michael Kerr
- Wednesday, March 02, 2005 at 15:22:59 (EST)
Hello good people!!
CG In Spanish I refer what there are 300000 disc better than miles -
kind of blue, no only 300.I don't put names because I was tired.
About your question, I try now to make the list of ten albums;It's a
work very difficult.There are many excellent discs.I'm for example
fanatic of the music of Allan Holdsworth,I exclude your music of the
list, i dislike to be repetitive.The order in the list is random
completely and is an a list posible to me to go one desert island and
listen this music every time what necessary.Ok:
1_Tony Williams"The Story Of Neptune"
2_McCoy Tyner"The Turning point"
3_Pat Metheny"The Way Up"
4_Brian Melvin"Standards Zone"
5_Mike Stern"Standards and others songs"
6_Jimmy Smith&Wes; Montgomery"The Duo Dinamic"
7_Henry Threadgill"Weird Nightmare:Meditations on Mingus"
8_AL Di Meola"Casino"
9_Breckers Brothers"Return of..."
10_George Russell"Any disc...
Jim Black...
...
.Ad infinitum.
I'm sure what I'll be more happy what anybody makes your list in
classic form
miles davis"kind of blue" buaaaaa.
horace silver"song for my father" I see this many times and
notunderstand.
dave brubeck"time out" ???
joe pass"virtuoso" jajaja
mahavisnu..."inner mountain..." what a noise!!!I know who plays but...
herbie hancock"maiden voyage" Simple album of talented man I prefer
your work live.Absolute mistake.
kenny burrell"midnight blue" oooohhh nonononononono.Listen captain
fingers of lee ritenour!!
I don't know at position 30 only Idle Moments-Grant Green and I like
very much of Charlie Mingus Ah Um whad could be in my list.
Excuse me all for my poor english.
gustavo azor
bersheva, israel - Wednesday, March 02, 2005 at 03:36:50 (EST)
No offense John, but I've never been that anal about the sound quality
on cds. I have the ability to ignore the 256k or 512k or xyz or I
really don't put that much thought into it. Hell, I could listen to
vinyl and be satisfied by the music.
Peter the great
- Tuesday, March 01, 2005 at 20:19:59 (EST)
Hey, this isn't a very popular album, but I think it should be. "On the Wild Side"
by John La Barbera is incredible (especially for number 3 -Tiger of San Pedro
[Which we played in the jazz band a long time ago]). These are the songs on
the album.
Mayreh (Horace Silver)
So What (Miles Davis)
Tiger of San Pedro (John La Barbera)
Message From Art (John La Barbera)
Walk on the Wild Side (E. Bernstein)
Cachaca Gotcha (John La Barbera)
Eleanor Rigby (John Lenon and Paul McCartney)
Cloth of Silver - Threads of Blue (John La Barbera)
Highland Crossing (John La Barbera)
I know it's a very unique choice of songs (An album with Miles and John Lenon
together??), but he made it very well. Tiger of San Pedro is very fun to play
(and listen to) and So What is obviously a classic. Wayne Berguson did an
incredible solo on T.S.P. INCREDIBLE. It's a samba song, the only thing I like
different about our version was it had a really long drum solo - percussion
break (which made it a tiny bit more exciting) but the trumpet solo and the
matching flute made up for it. If you guys would like to get this, just order it at
http://www.TheMusicResource.com/scripts/show_detail.asp?bc=82975743922
I got the address from the blue note catalog. It was a featured item. The site
sells great cd's for discounts. You guys should check it out, they got some crazy
stuff on there. Peace.
Alvin
- Tuesday, March 01, 2005 at 00:20:04 (EST)
I have no idea where all those extra carriage returns came from, I didn't see them when I
submitted my comments.
Joe Lubow
- Sunday, February 27, 2005 at 23:07:22 (EST)
Peter, the only Nero I'm familiar with is the Roman emperor - but there is no way any
recording can be better than the source material. It's simply not possible, unless the source
material is poorly equalized or contains background noise (which can be filtered out
-although usually compromising audio fidelity in the process). And mp3's are just missing
so much musical information that they cannot be rescued.
The most accurate reproduction of live music is analogue, since music is comprised of
continuous wave forms - an analogue phenomenon. New heavy-weight super-quiet vinyl is
the closest to live (and the new Classic Records re-issue of Kind of Blue is pure heaven).
Digitizing music takes waves and makes them steps. The smaller the steps, the closer to
analogue it will sound, so SA-CD is a close second to vinyl. Regular CD is significantly
inferior and MP3's are basically a way to hear a sample to decide whether or not to buy a
better version.
At their best:
Live Music - 10
Vinyl LP's - 9
SA-CD - 8
DVD-A - 7
CD - 5
WAV - 5
AIFF - 5
MP3 - 2.
Nero can't turn an MP3 into a wav or aiff file (or if it can it cheats and the results will be
noticeably unfulfilling), let alone bring it up to SA-CD or vinyl quality,
which are the only way to listen to Kind of Blue or A Love Supreme (Speaker's Corner
German LP - sweet!) or the original ECM Metheny records in your home.
If you've never heard SA-CD, bring your CD burned from downloaded MP3's to a high end
audio dealer and compare your CD to a real CD and then to an SA-CD (preferably one of the
LINN Unidisk players. And then if the dealer has a LINN LP-12 turntable, check out a
record. My guess is you'll melt all your MP3's and start over. And though you'll drop some
dough, you will be happy with the music in your home.
I agree with Derrick, and I'll up the ante: there needs to be a Basie album in the top 25. A
lot of people would probably choose Atomic Basie, and that would work for me, but I really
like Basie Jam - a small band jam from the 70's - not typical big band Basie, but just
exquisite. But whatever your favorite, there should be one.
Joe Lubow
- Sunday, February 27, 2005 at 23:04:38 (EST)
Oh yeah, I see it now. Thanks rick.
Alvin
- Sunday, February 27, 2005 at 20:01:09 (EST)
Alvin,
I moved "School Days" by Stanley Clarke up........
I saw him last Friday night, for a review of the show go to the
bassist list. Thanks.
RICK
- Sunday, February 27, 2005 at 14:32:15 (EST)
Rick, just wondering what did you really update? I wouldn't ask if it showed up
in the music lists updates thing. But I was just wondering.
Alvin
- Sunday, February 27, 2005 at 14:21:07 (EST)
well Rick i agree about Kind of Blue being #1. i have just purchased
it today and it is phenominal.
lint
- Saturday, February 26, 2005 at 21:42:39 (EST)
i think you should move headhunters up.
lint
- Saturday, February 26, 2005 at 18:11:11 (EST)
Hi, I found this list while I was writing on my website (if people
are into it: carafe.blogspot.com --- it is greay but I do not
understand how blues and the abstract truth can be ranked higher than
Sax Colossus. And they are very far apart. Also, In a Silent way
comes before any album by Miles with Shorter and company? A bit odd.
But a great list, it looks nice, and the album cover shots are great.
Thanks.
Stuart
NYC, NY USA - Thursday, February 24, 2005 at 05:00:58 (EST)
Gustavo, no escribo el espanol muy bien, pero en su opinion, cuales
son los discos mas grandes?
CG
- Wednesday, February 23, 2005 at 08:31:47 (EST)
For those of you who can't read Spanish, I believe Gustavo is saying
there are at least 300 better albums than Kind of Blue, Time Out and
Song For My Father. He's sorry to shoot down great albums, but he's a
fusion and free jazz fan. There's a little more in there that's
idiomatic and I can't figure it out.
CG
- Wednesday, February 23, 2005 at 08:30:23 (EST)
Inner Mounting Flame by Mahavishnu Orchestra is a kick ass albumn.
- Tuesday, February 22, 2005 at 12:52:01 (EST)
Kind of Blue es malisimo, song for my father tampoco es tan bueno,
tampoco time out si vamos al caso, pero en fin son las 4:21 y hoy
trabaje doble turno, me duele bastante la cabeza como para tirar
grandes albumes, pero la fusion y el free jazz son consideradas por
mi jazz y hay trescientos mil discos mejores que estos.
gustavo azor
bersheva, israel - Monday, February 21, 2005 at 21:22:49 (EST)
George,
Pleasure.
RICK
- Sunday, February 20, 2005 at 17:35:34 (EST)
Rick,
I just picked up "Bright Size Life" yesterday. I've listened to
it about twice. Thanks for recommending it.
George
Greensboro, - Saturday, February 19, 2005 at 15:15:27 (EST)
and how about at least an honorable mention for chick corea's "my
spanish heart"?
kevin kaye
- Thursday, February 17, 2005 at 14:11:48 (EST)
rick: i have all of metheny's solo, group and collaboration albums.
the one i would have placed on the list is "first circle" which
contains pat's signature tune, "the first circle," as well as the
gorgeous ballad "if i could", to name just two. also, "still life
(talking)" is a tremendous album, with "third wind" where you get a
great taste of pat's chops. i think the problem some have with pat is
they don't know how to classify his music because it has evolved so
much. you could call it fusion, but what does that mean? jazz/rock?
jazz/brazilian? jazz/metal? jazz/folk? and then pat turns around and
does straight up jazz with chick corea or gary burton or scofield or
brecker or jim hall or charlie haden. or he guests on a bruce hornsby
record or plays on a jimi hendrix tribute CD. i've read interviews
with pat who says that it's all just jazz. but people need to invent
new labels.
kevin kaye
- Thursday, February 17, 2005 at 14:09:10 (EST)
AAAAA
there is the romantic warrior but no light as a feather?!?!?!??!?!?!?!
jonnn
- Thursday, February 17, 2005 at 08:42:44 (EST)
I definitely understand what you mean with liners and such John. I
share the similar passion, though to me the main focus is on the music.
Also, my burning program, Nero, features an audio normalizing system
that makes the tracks sound just as good if not better than studio
published.
Peter the great
- Wednesday, February 16, 2005 at 17:12:46 (EST)
One good thing about jazz is, if I like an artist and buy a CD
because I've heard at least one tune, it's rare that there won't be
other good stuff, or that there'll be more than one tune I really
can't stand. Between a few of my friends, the local library, and
emerging technology at music stores, I can preview a lot of discs.
This is much different from rock, where I could love one or two
tracks and absolutely loath the rest. So buying jazz CDs isn't that
big a gamble, and if it persuades the companies to keep releasing the
artist's discs and the music stores to keep stocking them, so much
the better.
CG
- Wednesday, February 16, 2005 at 14:21:37 (EST)
This is just a commentary and not a persuasion:
Back in the pre-litigation days of Napster I used to download music
files of all varying degrees of bit rate (which ultimately determines
the quality of the source file) and found that even 256K bit rate
files were detectably inferior to the published versions found on
original CDs which reach 512K bit rate or better. Fortunately at that
time I was filling my 80s and 90s POP collection. I have since
trashed all of those files for three very good reasons:
1. The litigation went against Napster and thus caused the
unlicensed versions to be illegal. Screw that!
2. I determined the sound quality was not up to my standards. I
can detect the slightest clipping in the tone of acoustic instruments
digitally recorded in rates below 256K if not properly mastered.
3. What the hell was I thinking, 80s and 90s POP? My only
defense there is that I have a young wife and kids.
Anyway, its your money and your collection (save your receipts
though, someday the music police may be knocking at your door just
kidding). I know many of the things that I want in my collection are
not available anywhere except via collectors where premium prices
reach $300 or more for rare out of print items. Thats particularly
true with Near Mint LPs that have never been released on CD. I
wistfully await the re-release of Stanley Wilsons M Squad on superbit
Living Stereo.
One other thing that keeps me away from the download scene is that I
am really particular about having original cover art and liner notes.
You dont realize how important that is until your collection starts
getting to be pure greatness.
IMHO,
John
- Wednesday, February 16, 2005 at 11:31:25 (EST)
I don't put that much thought into it guys, mp3 I think. I alternate
between bitorrent files and filesharing programs, like limewire and
kazaa. Limewire is probably my favorite, I've downloaded a shitload of
Jazz from them, ranging from Mingus to Miles.
Peter the great
- Tuesday, February 15, 2005 at 20:28:44 (EST)
I download all the time, but I use itunes, which you have to pay ¢99 for it (every
song). They got some pretty good jazz (50's-60's) and the other time periods
too. The only thing I don't like is sometimes they just get rid of songs, and they
are usually the good ones. Well they don't get rid of them, but you have to type
in the name of the song, not just the artist. Too hard to explain. And another
thing I don't like is they got great jazz artists, lets take Lee Morgan for example,
but they don't have his best recordings (Sidewinder, Lee-Way). They have
Cornbread and Candy though. So I would recommend using that to anyone,
but don't expect to see some really great things on there. (As long as they have
Kind of Blue, A Love Supreme, Mingus Ah Um, and Brilliant Corners, I'm fine). If
they don't have something you can't find, just keep trying to look for it, cuz they
usually add it later on. Peace!
Alvin
- Tuesday, February 15, 2005 at 16:16:31 (EST)
Peter,
Do you download .wav or .mp3? As you may know there is a significant
differnce in quality as well as size.
John
- Tuesday, February 15, 2005 at 15:52:09 (EST)
Pete, is there a lot of 50's/60's jazz available for downloading, and
what does it cost? I'm reluctant to get into my fourth collection of
music (LP, cassette, CD). I guess the one thing attractive about
downloading is that you don't need a lot of storage space.
CG
- Tuesday, February 15, 2005 at 09:38:47 (EST)
Do you guys really wanna know how to satisfy your Jazz fancy?
download.
Peter the great
- Monday, February 14, 2005 at 16:49:55 (EST)
Alvin, have you ever heard the disc The Young Lions? It's a 1960
album with Morgan, Shorter, Timmons, and an alto sax player named
Frank Strozier. If you're into the Blakey/Morgan vibe you should
like it. Also, if you don't have it, you'd probably like Blakey's
Indestructible, which adds Curtis Fuller on trombone to the
Shorter/Morgan/Cedar Walton lineup. The first tune, "The Egyptian,"
has some of the most urgent playing I've ever heard Wayne Shorter do.
Lee Morgan is like a latter day discovery to me. I started listening
to jazz in the mid-70's but have gone through long periods where I
didn't listen to it much. Somehow I missed him until a friend
recently loaned me The Young Lions and Indestructible. Now I can't
get enough of him. Hope you can find Wes's stuff at better prices.
Amazon has a bunch of his stuff, including Smokin' at the Half Note,
at around $11, although I've never bought from them and I don't know
how much shipping they tack on. The thing about his stuff is, a lot
of it has the string sections and while his playing can never been
obliterated by the string sections, it's a whole lot more fun to get
him in a grittier setting, which is why Smokin' is so valuable. I
pulled out my LP of Incredible Jazz Guitar yesterday. It's a great
album, it's a quartet including Tommy Flanagan and no strings!
CG
- Monday, February 14, 2005 at 11:23:58 (EST)
CG, I got a good Trane and Miles collection going (although there's a few I
need still [My Favorite Things and Crescent by Trane, Bitches Brew by Miles]).
So only a few more by them, and I'm good. But I just don't have a single Wes
album, they're a little high, Incredible Jazz Guitar was twice the price (rhyme) of
Brilliant Corners. Morgan and Blakey, if you ask me, are the most enjoyable. I
can listen to them all day and not get sick of them. The first Lee Morgan album I
ever got was called "Lee Way". It's only four songs, but it's great. The first song,
"These are the Soulful Days" will get stuck in your head for like a month. After
you listen to that, the rest of the songs are still great, but you always wanna go
back to the first one. I like all of the songs from the cd, they all kind of get in
your head, but not as much as the first one. And I've been listening to Blakey
ever since I started listening to jazz, but I only have a few albums. For him,
"Moanin'" was the first one I got. Great disc, Lee plays incredible on there. In
fact, I think Lee plays some better solos on Moanin' than he does on
Sidewinder. Or it's close. The first Miles album I got was Steamin'. That showed
some great Philly JJ (especially on "Salt Penuts", the 4 minute drum solo). And
Blue Trane was the first Coltrane album I got. The first three guys I ever heard,
besides Satchmo, was Bird, Miles, and Trane. So I'm already adjusted to most
their stuff (I don't like Ascension though). I have more Miles albums than I do
anyone else. Headhunters, is great though, It takes a couple listens till you
actually like it though.
Alvin
- Sunday, February 13, 2005 at 15:00:29 (EST)
Alvin, I have a few albums from Trane, Wes, and Miles. I have
Incredible Jazz Guitar on vinyl -- it's the real deal. Smokin' at the
Half Note is incredible. For Trane, I also like My Favorite Things
better than A Love Supreme, which is a great work, but I love his
soprano playing on MFT and his version of Summertime. Also worth
owning are Giant Steps and an album that rarely gets mentioned is
Coltrane Plays the Blues. As far as Headhunters, I agree that
Chameleon is the best overall tune. I mentioned Watermelon Man because
it has a unique sound and he was willing to mess with one of his bread
and butter tunes, he presented it in a really different way than he
usually played it, and it worked! Also, Miles -- I have Kind of Blue,
Seven Steps to Heaven, and a compilation disc. Am trying to find more
Miles at bargain prices. I 've also gotten into Blakey and Lee Morgan
recently -- bought Blakey's The Freedom Rider (great 7:25 drum solo)
and Indestructible and Morgan's The Sidewinder which is terrific.
CG
- Sunday, February 13, 2005 at 09:47:03 (EST)
Am I the only one who thinks it's a shame that NOT ONE BASIE ALBUM IS
IN THE TOP 100?!!!!!!! You guys are out to lunch!! But, I agree
that "Kind Of Blue" is #1. However, I don't believe "A Love Supreme"
was Coltrane's best. His best was "My Favorite Things." And where
is Bobby Timmons? Man - ask somebody next time! SMILE
Derrick
Orlando, FL USA - Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 22:44:38 (EST)
I wanted the Incredible Jazz Guitar but it was a little high, so I'm gonna have to
wait.
Alvin
- Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 12:00:51 (EST)
Ya, I know it's good because I downloaded some of the songs from Smokin at
the Half Note. It's on the 'Live' Album list (number 3). I just I want to get any Wes
album period pretty much.
Alvin
- Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 11:59:12 (EST)
'Chameleon' is my personal favorite as well off of "Headhunters."
Alvin, make sure you get "Smokin' At the Half-Note" as well from
Montgomery, as well as "Live in Paris." The guy's on fire.
Peter the great
- Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 10:53:15 (EST)
CG, yeah. My personal favorite on there is "Chamenleon". But that
arrangement of "Watermelon Man" was pretty cool (especially since I can
convince my brother that jazz isn't all swing by showing him that song). It's a
real out cd. But it's pretty cool after you listen to all of it. I just think you should
listen to original, classic albums by Wes Montgomery and John Coltrane and
Charlie Parker, and oh ya, Miles Davis (his original quintet series [Steamin' is
the best one of em if you ask me]). I hate to say it, but I need to get a Wes
Montgomery album, I've only downloaded his songs. I really want to get "Full
House" and "Incredible Jazz Guitar".
Rick and Kevin Kaye,
I can't really help you on that just because I don't really know anything about
Metheny, I've heard a few of his songs, and I thought they were o.k. but know
match to Wes, Django, and Charlie Christian. And Rick, I don't know if this is a
compilation or not (I don't think it is) but another Charlie Christian album you
might want (if you don't have it already, even though you probably do) is "The
Original Hero of Jazz Guitar". I think that's what it's called. I don't think it's a
compilation, I think it's like Wes's "Incredible Jazz Guitar". I also need to get
"Solo Flight".
Alvin
- Friday, February 11, 2005 at 19:56:49 (EST)
Alvin, I just bought Headhunters on CD. I had it on vinyl but hadn't
listened to it in years and it disappeared. It sounded great. I
love the version of "Watermelon Man" that starts with Bill Summers
playing beer bottle. What a hoot!
CG
- Friday, February 11, 2005 at 14:32:28 (EST)
Kevin Kaye,
Which Metheny albums would you have chosen ?
RICK
- Friday, February 11, 2005 at 12:07:01 (EST)
iGoR, are you saying that no contemporary jazz artists are as
impactful or influential as those from the early to mid 20th century?
The reasons you can make the case for putting Metheny on the same list
as Miles Davis and others is 1.) his virtuoso playing, he truly is one
of the top five jazz players of all time, 2.) his compositions and 3.)
his ability to move in a multitude of jazz genres, both as a composer
and as a player. I disagree with some of the Metheny albums listed
here, but only because I would have chosen others in their place!
And just a note on Kind of Blue...I just picked up the re-release last
week and heard the album for the first time. I listened to it on my
hour-long commute home. It was moving, complex, gorgeous music.
Amazing line-up. If you want to call it the best jazz album of all
time, I'm not going to argue the point.
kevin kaye
- Friday, February 11, 2005 at 01:15:20 (EST)
Hey guys
Thx for the recommadations! I'll be checking some of these CDs out.
In the mean time a friend borrowed me John Scofield - A Go Go which
is a groovy funk masterpiece!
Grover
- Friday, February 11, 2005 at 01:14:09 (EST)
Grover, mine are
Sidewinder - Lee Morgan
Moanin' - Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers
Blue Train - John Coltrane
Go! - Dexter Gordon
Song for My Father - Horace Silver (or Blowin' the Blues Away)
I think you would like "Sister Sadie" by Horace Silver from Blowin'
the Blues Away. We read it a while ago, and it's not that hard of a
song, but it's pretty 'groovy'. But those are all hard bop albums.
You might also want to pick up "Headhunters" by Herbie Hancock. It's
fusion/funk, but you should like it. I hope you like em.
Alvin
- Thursday, February 10, 2005 at 20:28:19 (EST)
Well, I think Live Art from Bela Fleck and the Flecktones is a great
album, it should be listed at leat in the top 25.
vicojazzman
- Thursday, February 10, 2005 at 18:14:10 (EST)
Grover,
Horace Silver's Song For My Father or Blowing the Blues Away are
groovy.
Kerrmit
- Thursday, February 10, 2005 at 14:39:46 (EST)
Grover,
Try Duke Ellington's CD called Masterpieces or any of the Ellington
suites. Count Basie's - Fancy Pants or Warm Breeze
John
It Dont Mean a Thing...
- Thursday, February 10, 2005 at 10:58:58 (EST)
Can anybody recommend any 'groovy' jazz albums? I've bought Kind of
Blue and Mingus Ah Um. They're both jazz masterpieces but I'm really
up for something that totally swings. Any recommadations?
Grover
- Thursday, February 10, 2005 at 08:07:58 (EST)
I think two tremendous albums left out of this list are Herbie
Hancock's Empyrean Isles and Chick Corea's Friends.
Brendan
Baltimore, MD - Wednesday, February 09, 2005 at 17:57:02 (EST)
woody, that's compliments of they guy directly in front of me (i
won't try and spell his name).
Peter the great
- Wednesday, February 09, 2005 at 17:22:23 (EST)
Peter the great
Who said that? Trane was one of the few jazz players to quit cold turkey before
he went to Impulse. He gave up everything except nicotine. If every human had
the will power, enthusiasm. determination. perserverance and spiritual
ambition of Trane we wouldn't need cops or locks on doors. Whoever said that
should read Chasin The Trane and go crank some ajax.
woody
- Tuesday, February 08, 2005 at 22:20:16 (EST)
"coltrane was tired of coltrane a long time ago. that's why he turned
to drugs."
Words of an apostle right there folks. *sarcasm*
Peter the great
- Tuesday, February 08, 2005 at 16:42:12 (EST)
Michael Brecker, "Don't Try This At Home" should be in the top 40. his
best album. those other brecker albums are weak imitations where he's
just phoning it in. and i'm sorry, but coltrane was tired of coltrane a
long time ago. that's why he turned to drugs.
man, this list hurts my brain. where's the freshness? miles would have
set this website on fire.
Marcinkiewicz
Greenbrae, CA Jazzland - Tuesday, February 08, 2005 at 02:13:30 (EST)
Joe,
Sunday at the Village Vanguard is great but a live album, which does
not qualify for this list
RICK
- Saturday, February 05, 2005 at 15:39:44 (EST)
sunday at the village vangaurd (bill evans)check it out
joe
- Saturday, February 05, 2005 at 13:35:09 (EST)
Peter the Great,
I suppose its possible, Im sure its pathetic.
John
Addressing your full handle as not to confuse you with whoever that was.
- Thursday, February 03, 2005 at 19:25:36 (EST)
Who is Miles Davis?!? No!!! No!!! My eyes! My scared eyes!
Peter the great
- Thursday, February 03, 2005 at 18:49:24 (EST)
Who WAS Miles Davis...
http://www.milesdavis.com/
Duckinhooks
- Thursday, February 03, 2005 at 11:08:44 (EST)
Who is Miles Davis....?
Peter
Denmark - Thursday, February 03, 2005 at 07:49:42 (EST)
the bill evans trio (sunday at the village vangaurd)should be in the
top three.much of the stuff listed is not even jazz.
joe
- Wednesday, February 02, 2005 at 08:14:59 (EST)
Alonzo, when listening to legendary albums, I have a style that I
find useful. When listening to something like "Kind of Blue," keep in
mind the reason it holds such a legendary status. Keep in mind the
revolutionary modal approach, Davis' lyricism, Coltrane's sheets of
sound, Evans' voicings, and Adderley's happiness. Looking back at it,
I'm still amazed at who was in the band and how amazing the results
were. Keep these things in mind and you'll appreciate it.
Peter the great
- Tuesday, February 01, 2005 at 16:46:58 (EST)
Thanks John,
I still think its overrated!
Alonzo
- Tuesday, February 01, 2005 at 11:55:55 (EST)
Kind of Blue, simple as ABC:
A. First widely published (and publicly accepted) jazz using modal
scales which changed the sound of jazz forever.
B. The personell, Davis, Coltrane, Adderly, Evans, Chambers, Kelly and
Cobb - all masters of the game at the pinacle of jazz popularity.
C. The technical engineering is flawless.
IMHO John,
Still thinking A Love Supreme is No.1
- Tuesday, February 01, 2005 at 11:03:21 (EST)
Can someone explain the big deal with Kind Of Blue....?
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about!
Alonzo
- Tuesday, February 01, 2005 at 07:22:02 (EST)
Heavy Weather at 19!!!!
THAT’S A SIN!!!!
HEAVY WEATHER SHOULD BE IN THE TOP 5.
Chris Wilson
England - Tuesday, February 01, 2005 at 07:20:24 (EST)
People hated John Coltrane because they extended the same narrow-
minded simpilicity that haunts your opinions.
Now, where to begin. First of all, you can NOT, I repeat, YOU CANNOT
base your opinion on the genre Jazz from the biased perspective
represented on the Ken Burns Jazz series. Try and follow me here
matt. Ken Burns summed up the period of Jazz "1960-Present" in two
hours. TWO HOURS. So you think listening to the equally hodgepodge cd
collection gives you an accurate representation of that period? Get a
life.
Wow matt, you just amaze me even more with your response. If Miles'
second quintet was a collection of self-indulgent musicians, then why
are they regarded by basically every Jazz fan with a knowledgable
opinion as one of the premier if not THE premier Jazz group ever?
It's pretty damn obvious that you don't know what you're saying, then
again, I can't blame you, because your opinion of the second quintet
is constricted to Ken Burns. I suggest checking out the excellent
albums this excellent quintet made, maybe that will enlighten you;
because as it is, you're an outsider looking in who seems to think he
can form an opinion.
Peter the great
- Sunday, January 30, 2005 at 21:31:00 (EST)
Peter "the great": your opinions don't carry any more weight when you
attempt to condescend and belittle by adding my name to the end of
every sentence, Peter. And Alvin, you missed my point entirely. When
two notes would have sufficed, in the hands of a master with taste
(e.g., Prez), Trane would play 29 extraneous notes.
As far as my having listened to only a few albums, where did you draw
that inference? I went back and listened to all of Ken Burns' episodes
9 & 10, which contain lots of Miles and Trane, including the "famous"
quintet that included Wayne Shorter on sax, Herbie Hancock on piano,
Ron Carter on bass, and Tony Williams on drums. Regarding the latter
group, and notwithstanding Redman's voice-over to the contrary, I've
never seen a worse example of self-indulgent musicians, so into their
own little spheres and not listening to each other.
I'm glad you two are so open-minded, though, Peter and Alvin, and
willing to entertain unpopular opinions. Lots of people hated Trane's
music when it first came out. Now it's apparently politically incorrect
to hate it in retrospect.
MATT
Washington, DC USA - Sunday, January 30, 2005 at 13:22:26 (EST)
Well said Peter, you could defend Miles and Trane real good. I don't
really know what Matt is talking about, since Miles best carrer was
in the 50's. And Trane played like every note imaginable on the sax,
not two (matt you can tell on "A Love Supreme Part I :
Acknowledgment" when he goes really high. And on Blue Train when he
goes really low and pretty high.) You should actually listen to an
artist before you say they can't play anything. And if you don't like
either one, than that's fine. But don't listen to a few albums and
say you hate them.
Alvin
- Sunday, January 30, 2005 at 12:07:23 (EST)
E-gaddd!
A day or two of silence and the vermen ink in like roaches in a L.A.
soup kitchen at 3AM.
Peter... Matt is trolling for you.
John
- Friday, January 28, 2005 at 17:51:20 (EST)
Ick matt, your post reaks of narrow-minded "insight."
Now, not understanding "Kind of Blue" is fine. I took me a few
listens to enjoy it myself. But to completely sell of the artists
as 'awful' and 'overrated' is narrow-minded, no matter what way you
look at it.
Miles played to little? It's called lyricism matt. Miles didn't play
slow and short because he wasn't a talented player. He's number two
on the trumpet list (in front of your boy Cliff I might add), and for
good reason at that. His lyricism is still today some of the finest
playing in all of Jazz. Just because it wasn't fast or long doesn't
mean it's not good. C'mon matt! Oh, and let me add that I'm listening
to "Complete Live at the Plugged Nickel" where Miles is playing fast
and long, just for you matt.
Now, onto Coltrane, who you obviously don't understand. Played too
much because he couldn't choose?!? WHAT?!? Your just a series of
contradictions Matt. Obviously if he's playing long, fast phrases he
has a bevvy of notes coming out, and seeing that Coltrane's upper-
register was state of the art at the time, I'd say he has a PRETTY
nice selection of notes, ones that he utilized beautifully,
especially on "Kind of Blue." If you want more examples on how great
Coltrane was on choosing notes, I suggest you listen to "Giant
Steps," "My Favorite Things," and especially "Newport '63." Every
selection on that album is perfect example to how good Coltrane
assembled his solos. Long Winded? Possibly. But lacking discipline? I
suggest you pick up an instrument.
Now, all this adds up to my conclusion: that you have complete
disregard for the artists CAREERS. You state Miles did nothing good
in the 50s, and then he just became a rock musician. What about, hmm,
the second quintet? Believe it or not matt, Miles Davis had a career
in the 60s, and a damn good quintet that consisted of him on trumpet,
Wayne Shorter on sax, Herbie Hancock on piano, Ron Carter on bass,
and Tony Williams on drums. For somebody who claims to have listened
to "a ton" of Jazz, it's so incredibly near-sighted to claim that
Miles' career consisted of hard-bop in the 50s, and then fusion. Yes,
it does sound ridiculous!
Peter the great
- Friday, January 28, 2005 at 17:35:22 (EST)
I've listened to a ton of jazz, and I still don't get "Kind of Blue." I
would have to call Miles and Trane the two most over-rated musicians in
the history of jazz. Miles played too little because he lacked basic
fluency on his horn, let alone the incredible virtuosity of a Clifford
Brown. And his tone was awful (not soulful, I said AWFUL). Trane, on
the other hand, played too much because he lacked the discipline to
choose notes: why play two notes when you can connect them with the 29
notes in-between? IMHO, the only interesting point in Miles' playing
during the 1950s (before he morphed into a poor rock musician) was his
choice of piano players, though I'd take Red Garland over either Evans
or Wynton Kelley.
matt
Washington, DC USA - Friday, January 28, 2005 at 16:40:18 (EST)
Pat Metheny is a great musician, but putting him in the same list
with players like Miles Davis and John Coltrane goes a little far.
Meaby we should have 1 Metheny record in the list but 5? come on,
theres some definatly wrong with that.
iGoR
- Monday, January 24, 2005 at 17:12:21 (EST)
i'd like to offer up First Circle by the Pat Metheny Group and My
Spanish Heart by Chick Corea.
kevin kaye
- Friday, January 21, 2005 at 15:21:08 (EST)
Yeah Brian, Miles Smiles is really an exceptional album. This is the
quintet at it's most chaotic and manic. Though I'd say Sorcerer and
Nefertiti are more mature efforts, Miles Smiles is in my mind the
definitive album from that second quintet. Not the most complex, but
the most accessible, and still retaining the chords and progressions
that gave the group their unique sound. Top 70 in my mind.
Oh, and nice job moving Black Saint up, not it just needs to move up
more.
Peter the great
- Tuesday, January 18, 2005 at 23:47:48 (EST)
If only one of Miles' Prestige albums is added, the one I would add is
Cookin'. But of all of Miles' albums, my favorite one not on the list
is Miles Smiles.
Brian
- Tuesday, January 18, 2005 at 16:20:12 (EST)
Peter,
I'll be saving my milk money :)
John
- Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 18:51:32 (EST)
Im only speculating what goes on in the studio and on the road but my
take is that any musician talented enough to play with Miles Davis and
survive more than a take or two would have earned their laurals by
right of passage and I think Miles would have respected that.
Just supposin
John
- Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 18:49:29 (EST)
Ha, point taken Rick. But when you do save some dough, I highly
recommend the other Miles 60s releases, like ESP, Miles Smiles, and
Neferttiti.
This chat here brought up a strange question in my mind. Miles had
this reputation as a jag-bag, the whole "fuck the rules" thing.
However, why was it that every artist that worked with him talked
about what a great guy he was, and how their working experience was
the best they had ever had? It really is strange, considering that
the bios that have come out post Miles' death really exploited the
demons this guy carried.
Peter the great
- Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 16:11:22 (EST)
Peter, Alvin,
I really wasnt trying to present an argument against Miles catalogue
post KOB, only that I personally prefer his earlier work and wanted to
support Peters suggestion about the four obligatory Prestiges. My
comment about the ego thing was just a little rabble rousing on my
part.
Alvin is correct on both counts (it takes growth to be a monumental
ass). Miles started out a little on the strange side as evidenced in
the very early days of his career by his persistent nagging of Parker
to let him sit in on his sessions at a time when his lack of spit and
polish was obvious. Maybe that wasnt being strange just aggressive.
However, as his talent became more developed his popularity grew
alongside and so did his eccentricity. I only theorize that his
tenure at the prestigious Columbia, no pun intended, had significant
impetus to his isolationism. I suppose anyone would be inflated being
in such high demand. But too much is too much.
His catalog between KOB and In A Silent Way (the sixties) is extensive
to say the least. Honestly, I havent listened to much more than a few
of the recordings made in those years and even less of the fusion
years. Not because I dont appreciate his development in that period
but mainly due to my focus on saxophone combos and piano trios. My
lack of financial resources doesnt allow me to go much beyond that.
I have his entire Prestige catalogue, that put a pretty big hole in my
budget. I also have KOB, Sketches, Bitches and Files. I love them
all.
So dont shoot me, Im really not Miles bashing when I say that I never
quite got over his insensitivity to his audience. Not that it was my
most unforgettable experience with Miles, but I did pay a pretty good
premium to get close seats at the Hollywood Bowl JVC Jazz festival
(his last appearance there) and only got a few glimpses of his face.
He never spoke directly to the audience. That was very
disappointing. Did it diminish his talent or my enjoyment of his
music? - OOOOOOOH NOT ONE BIT!
Maybe its that lack of audience connection (inhumanism) that makes me
think A Love Supreme belongs at #1 and KOB, like, #4 but hey, its
Ricks list.
John
- Wednesday, January 12, 2005 at 14:08:55 (EST)
I have a half and half agreement - disagreement with John. Mainly cuz (this
sounds messed up) Miles was always kind of a strange dude. He was cool (fo
sho) but, he was always a little jacked up. I mean he locked himself in his room
for a week with no food or anything so he could get off his drug problems and
all that jazz. But I'm just saying, I wouldn't say AFTER his KOB release, he
always kind of thought he was "F everybody because I am trumpet god
attitude". So I know I sound really messed up, especially since my
disagreement with John is Miles didn't start acting like an ass after KOB, he
was always like that. Sorry, I just gotta say he was a major ass (but still an
outstanding trumpeter and influential artist).
By the way, if you don't belive me, I want you to know that he with totally ignore
his fans and stuff, because he was an ass.
I'm tired, I'll be on later and see if anyone is pissed at me.
PEACE!!
Alvin
- Tuesday, January 11, 2005 at 22:14:13 (EST)
I honestly don't really take that argument John. Even though he
developed that notorious ego problem in the 60s, any musician that
worked with him in that time-frame will tell you personally what an
amazing leader e was. And, you can't argue with the music that was
produced. You've got the classic string of second quintet albums, and
the incredible fusion albums of the late 60s, early 70s.
Peter the great
- Tuesday, January 11, 2005 at 17:14:43 (EST)
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